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Robin Donlan deposition
Part 3
November 4, 2004
Part 3
November 4, 2004
EXHIBITS: PAGE
1 One-page handwritten notes 28
2 Copy of a Star News article
August 20, 2004, two pages 36
3 One-page memo, February 25, 2002 42
4 Two-page bilingual flier 73
5 Condensed transcript, deposition
of Gretchen Donndelinger,
September 10, 2002 124
1 One-page handwritten notes 28
2 Copy of a Star News article
August 20, 2004, two pages 36
3 One-page memo, February 25, 2002 42
4 Two-page bilingual flier 73
5 Condensed transcript, deposition
of Gretchen Donndelinger,
September 10, 2002 124
Robin Donlan was supported by attorneys
Deborah Garvin,
Kelly Angell, and
Michael Hersh
Link to Part 1
Part 2
Deborah Garvin,
Kelly Angell, and
Michael Hersh
Link to Part 1
Part 2
125
...BY MS. LARKINS:
...Q. Would you look at Page 80, Line 19. Could you
20 read the question there that starts on Line 19 and goes
21 to Line 21.
22 A. "Did Robin Colls ever share with you
23 any kind of information concerning a police report
24 allegedly, somehow, involving Maura Larkins?"
25 Q. And could you please read the answer starting on
126
1 Page -- Line 22 and continuing on to the next page.
2 A. "Actually that did come up at some point when
3 she was talking, but she herself said, you know, you
4 don't want to hear anything about that, and I'm not going
5 to tell you. I know that there is something, but I have
6 no clue what it is."
7 Q. And the first line, please, on Page 81.
8 A. "She didn't want me to know."
9 Q. Was there ever something about a police report
10 that you didn't want Gretchen Donndelinger to know?
11 A. Not to my recollection, no.
12 Q. Okay. So according to your recollection,
13 Gretchen Donndelinger's testimony about you here is
14 false?
15 A. As far as I recall.
16 Q. Okay. Did your brother ever talk to you during
17 the year 2000 about my having been arrested?
18 MR. GARVIN: Vague and ambiguous.
19 THE WITNESS: No.
20 BY MS. LARKINS:
21 Q. Okay. Would you please read the question on
22 Line 2 of Page 81.
23 A. "So she said there's something in the police
24 report?"
25 Q. And could you read Line 3?
127
1 A. "It was a personal thing."
2 Q. Could you read Lines 4 and 5 which are another
3 question.
4 A. "Involving something that was a non-school
5 matter but that Robin Colls was aware of?
6 Uh-huh.
7 Was that a yes?"
8 Do I continue?
9 Q. Okay. Now that you have read almost half a page
10 of Gretchen Donndelinger's testimony about a conversation
11 she claims to have had with you, are you getting any
12 memories at all of this conversation?
13 A. No, none whatsoever.
14 Q. Okay. Do you have any explanation for why
15 Gretchen Donndelinger would have said that you talked
16 about a police report?
17 MS. ANGELL: Objection. Calls for speculation.
18 You don't guess in a deposition, but if you have
19 information, if she told you something or if you have
20 knowledge, then you express it.
21 MR. HERSH: Did she testify that there was a
22 police record or was that the question about a police
23 record? Since I don't have it.
24 MS. ANGELL: The question at Page 80, Line 19
25 was: "Did Robin Colls ever share with you any kind of
128
1 information concerning a police report allegedly,
2 somehow, involving Maura Larkins?" So it was concerning
3 a police report allegedly, somehow, involving Maura
4 Larkins.
5 MR. HERSH: Okay.
6 MS. LARKINS: Okay.
7 Q. Well, I'm going to try help jog your memory
8 here. So could you read the question that was asked of
9 Gretchen Donndelinger that is recorded here on Line 10 on
10 Page 81.
11 A. "Was this in a face-to-face conversation with
12 Robin Colls?"
13 Q. And what was Gretchen's answer?
14 A. "Yes."
15 Q. Okay. You don't remember any face-to-face
16 conversation with Gretchen Donndelinger about a police
17 report that allegedly somehow involved me?
18 A. No, I don't.
19 Q. Okay. Do you have any experience of Gretchen
20 Donndelinger having hallucinations?
21 A. No. Personally, no.
22 Q. Okay. But you heard -- her testimony here is
23 false; is that your testimony?
24 A. I don't have any recollection of that event.
25 Q. Could this conversation have had happened and
129
1 you might have forgotten it?
2 A. I doubt that.
3 Q. So you're quite sure this conversation never
4 took place?
5 A. I don't recall it.
6 Q. Okay. Could you please turn to the next -- you
7 know, the next page, and then at the top of the next page
8 is condensed Page 82. Oh, actually -- I'm sorry.
9 You know, it won't make any sense unless we
10 finish reading 81. Could you read Line 20 on 81.
11 A. "It occurred in the 1999-2000 school year."
12 Q. Then could you read the question --
13 A. "But you found out about it in which year?"
14 Q. And could you read the answer.
15 A. "There was an incident this is referring, to my
16 belief. They had a problem with a staff member the year
17 before and -- that's what I understood this to mean
18 anyway."
19 MS. LARKINS: Okay. Okay. I'd like to go on
20 break because I need to copy a document.
21 THE WITNESS: She has to leave anyway, don't
22 you?
23 MS. GARVIN: I'm sorry?
24 MS. LARKINS: Do you want to continue or do you
25 want to end this session now? Because what I would do
130
1 next is I would go on break and I would copy this
2 document.
3 MS. GARVIN: Let me see that.
4 Does this involve Michael Carlson?
5 MS. LARKINS: This involves Line 25 of Page 81
6 of the deposition that we are discussing.
7 MS. GARVIN: This is Exhibit 19 to --
8 MS. LARKINS: Yes.
9 MS GARVIN: -- the deposition.
10 MS. LARKINS: Actually what Elizabeth Schulman
11 did was she had exhibits for the deposition and then she
12 kept the same numbers when she prepared this exhibit book
13 for the administrative hearing.
14 MS. GARVIN: Go ahead and finish this up.
15 MS. LARKINS: Okay. I need to go on break to
16 make a copy.
17 VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record at 5:08.
18 (Recess taken.)
19 VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the record at 5:11.
20 MS. LARKINS: Did you want to say something?
21 MS. GARVIN: It's your deposition.
22 MS. LARKINS: I am willing to conclude this
23 session of this deposition now. I believe that
24 Ms. Garvin supports that idea. And Mr. Hersh will not
25 object. So I think it's up to you, Ms. Angell.
131
1 MS. ANGELL: I have no problem with it. I'm
2 thinking about possible dates. Maybe sometime during the
3 week of November 13th -- sorry -- November 15th, based on
4 Ms. Donlan -- I don't know if you have any testing of
5 children going on, but if maybe we could consider that
6 week.
7 MS. GARVIN: I know that on the 17th is the
8 deposition of the sheriff's department is already
9 scheduled.
10 MS. ANGELL: So maybe we should just go off and
11 then talk about possible scheduling dates.
12 VIDEOGRAPHER: Okay?
13 MS. LARKINS: Wait a minute.
14 MS. ANGELL: So yeah.
15 MR. HERSH: So the Carlson deposition is off on
16 the 15th?
17 MS. LARKINS: Yeah
18 MR. HERSH: We are off the record now?
19 VIDEOGRAPHER: No. We are still on.
20 MS. LARKINS: It's on the 17th?
21 MS. ANGELL: Not Carlson. I mean the sheriff.
22 MS. LARKINS: Okay. The sheriff is the 17th and
23 Carlson's is 23rd?
24 MS. GARVIN: Yes.
25 MR. HERSH: At what time?
132
1 MS GARVIN: 1:00 o'clock.
2 MS. LARKINS: Is it 1:00 o'clock? I probably
3 have that written down.
4 MS. GARVIN: Here.
5 MS. LARKINS: 1:00 o'clock, Carlson.
6 MS. GARVIN: Are we going off the record and
7 concluding the depo, going off the record now?
8 MS. LARKINS: Can we agree on the 15th?
9 MS. ANGELL: I need to go check my calendar at
10 the office, but I'd like to aim for that week.
11 MS. LARKINS: Okay. That's fine.
12 Then I guess we can conclude here for this
13 session.
14 Do we need to say all that stuff about what to
15 do with the transcript?
16 MS. ANGELL: Yes.
17 MS. LARKINS: Okay. Someone else want to do it?
18 Do you want me to try?
19 Oh, hey. Darn it. I don't have a deposition
20 with me. Usually I have someone else's deposition and I
21 can read it.
22 MS. GARVIN: You have that one, the Donndelinger
23 one.
24 MS. LARKINS: Let's see what it says. They were
25 a lot more casual on this one.
133
1 MS GARVIN: Are we going to have the witness
2 review it now or wait until it's complete to review all
3 of the transcript at the same time?
4 MS. LARKINS: Why don't we let her review this
5 part.
6 MS. GARVIN: And so we need to know how long it
7 would take Ms. Donlan to review her transcript.
8 MS. ANGELL: Well, it depends on when she gets
9 it, I would assume. So customary we are talking a month
10 to review. I don't know how long it's going -- I don't
11 know if you're going to expedite the transcript or what.
12 I don't know what your plan is.
13 MS. LARKINS: I don't think we need to expedite
14 it, but -- a whole month she needs to review it?
15 MS. ANGELL: That's the usual. People who are
16 working --
17 MS. LARKINS: Okay.
18 MS. ANGELL: It's normal.
19 So since you're apparently not going to do a
20 stipulation, I'll propose the following stipulation:
21 That the court reporter be relieved from her duties under
22 the code as well as the videographer be relieved from his
23 duties under code, and that counsel have agreed on the
24 record to continue this deposition to its second volume
25 at a mutually agreed-upon date, hopefully during
134
1 November, but counsel will confer on that matter.
2 And we also stipulate that the original of this
3 transcript, including a condensed and word index, will be
4 forwarded to Ms. Donlan for her review and signature;
5 that a postage-paid envelope will be -- excuse me. I'm
6 going to take that back. You're going to send it me to
7 be forwarded to Ms. Donlan, and I'll take care of the
8 envelope.
9 And that from the time -- I will forward it to
10 Ms. Donlan for her review and signature and any
11 corrections that are necessary. And from the time
12 Ms. Donlan receives the transcript, she'll have 30 days
13 to make her changes and sign it. If the changes are not
14 made and the signature not done within that 30 days, it
15 will be deemed signed as is.
16 MS. LARKINS: Can I interrupt a moment?
17 I'm trying to figure out why you wanted me to
18 sign my deposition in one week and yet hers would be a
19 month.
20 MS. ANGELL: Because we're going to continue
21 your deposition. Your deposition is not done, but that
22 doesn't really have anything to do with hers. We were
23 talking -- I can't remember if we were talking about -- I
24 explained it on the record at the time. I know that
25 there was a discussion of it and we explained on it the
135
1 record at the time. So if you want to go back and look
2 at your transcript -- if you want to propose the
3 stipulation, I don't care. Go ahead. You just weren't
4 doing it.
5 MS. LARKINS: You're right. I'm a crummy
6 lawyer. I have stipulated to that on other occasions.
7 MS. ANGELL: So my proposed stipulation is then
8 stricken. Go ahead.
9 MS. LARKINS: Okay. I did not agree that it be
10 stricken.
11 I want to talk about how long it takes her to
12 sign it, and I would like you to explain --
13 MS. GARVIN: I'll agree to whatever stipulation
14 you eventually are able to work out.
15 MR. HERSH: I stipulate that Ms. Garvin pay my
16 salary for the day.
17 MS. LARKINS: Two points.
18 (Ms. Garvin not present.)
19 MS. LARKINS: I cannot for the life of me figure
20 out why there is such a huge difference between my
21 deposition and Ms. Donlan's deposition.
22 MS. ANGELL: Well, for one thing, you're not
23 employed, to my knowledge, and she has a full-time job.
24 For the second thing, you're a party to this litigation;
25 you're bringing the litigation, and we knew that your
136
1 deposition was going to continue in multiple parts, and I
2 asked you if that was enough time for you and you said
3 that it was.
4 MS. LARKINS: I agree. I think one month is too
5 long for Ms. Donlan.
6 MS. ANGELL: Well, you can think that.
7 How long do you need? This is going to be this
8 thick (indicating).
9 THE WITNESS: Yeah. And I don't -- I want to be
10 thorough before I sign it.
11 MS. ANGELL: It also depends on when she gets
12 it. Do you have any travel that is going to take you out
13 of town? Normally it takes several weeks for these
14 things to be produced.
15 THE WITNESS: No. I don't have any plans
16 currently.
17 MS. ANGELL: All right. So you're not planning
18 to leave town between now and December 31?
19 THE WITNESS: No.
20 MS. ANGELL: Okay. So how long do you think
21 that you'll need to -- the transcript looks like a
22 screenplay or like a movie script, you know, question,
23 answer, just like this
24 THE WITNESS: Comb-bound, correct?
25 MS. ANGELL: Usually. So it's basically going
137
1 to look like this, so --
2 THE WITNESS: But thicker.
3 MS. ANGELL: Each page is on its own.
4 THE WITNESS: Well, I'll only be able to read at
5 night, along with everything else I do in the evenings.
6 MS. ANGELL: Like grade papers --
7 THE WITNESS: Grade papers, make lesson plans,
8 take care of my husband, you know.
9 MS. LARKINS: It would be much easier if all you
10 had to do was fight off four huge law firms.
11 THE WITNESS: I mean I don't want to feel like
12 I'm rushed in going through it.
13 MS. ANGELL: How long do you think you need?
14 It's probably going to be several hundred pages, double
15 spaced.
16 THE WITNESS: At least three to four weeks, I
17 would think.
18 MS. LARKINS: How about three weeks?
19 MS. ANGELL: All right. So three weeks from the
20 time that she receives it.
21 Now, do you want to make the stipulation or do
22 you want me to put it on? I don't approve when you
23 strike things; you don't approve when I strike my own
24 comments.
25 MS. LARKINS: Okay. So it really is stricken?
138
1 MS. ANGELL: When you strike you own questions,
2 I don't go back and -- you know, I have control over what
3 I say and you have control over what you say.
4 MS. LARKINS: Okay. I'm sorry. I didn't --
5 MS. ANGELL: Do you want me to put it on or do
6 you prefer to do it yourself? I'm trying to help you out
7 here because you don't seem to know what you're doing.
8 MS. LARKINS: That's right. I don't know what
9 I'm doing, but I will tell what you I'll do. I'll try.
10 Okay.
11 Now, we still have, I believe -- I don't think
12 it was stricken when Ms. Garvin asked whether or not we
13 would have this session, this volume, signed, so that's
14 still in.
15 Ms. Donlan is going to read and sign this volume
16 of it without regard to whenever we continue the
17 deposition. And the deposition is going to be delivered
18 to Kelly Angell when the court reporter has it ready.
19 MS. ANGELL: The original of the deposition.
20 MS. LARKINS: Thank you.
21 MS. ANGELL: With the documents that I
22 previously listed.
23 MS. LARKINS: Yes. I'm quite sure our court
24 reporter was planning on doing that.
25 Then you will provide it to Ms. Donlan, and from
139
1 the time that you provide it, Ms. Donlan will have three
2 weeks to sign it. And if she doesn't sign it, a
3 certified copy will be acceptable as -- the same as an
4 original. And, in fact, a certified copy will be
5 acceptable in lieu of an original whether she signs it or
6 not. But if she doesn't sign it within three weeks, then
7 it will be considered signed and accepted in the state
8 that it was in when prepared by the court reporter.
9 Let's see. Is there anything else? I don't
10 think they did all this stuff here. Oh, yeah, they did.
11 MS. ANGELL: Could I ask the court reporter --
12 well, I might as well ask you while we are all here. I
13 don't know if it's possible to go back and mark before
14 you print everything out the standing objections. If
15 that is possible to mark it in the transcript, if you
16 would, that would be great.
17 THE REPORTER: I will mark it -- I'll put
18 "record marked at the request of Ms. Angell," and I will
19 mark where you have stated your standing objections.
20 MS. ANGELL: Yeah. There was a stipulation as
21 to all -- as to relevance objections being made for
22 everything. That is particularly what I'm interested in.
23 MS. LARKINS: Okay. I can't think of anything
24 else to stipulate. If you want anything else
25 stipulated --
140
1 MS. ANGELL: A facsimile copy of signature will
2 be deemed sufficient evidence of Ms. Donlan's signature
3 on the deposition for all purposes. Ms. Donlan's counsel
4 will retain the original copy and produce it upon timely
5 request. However, if the original is not available, a
6 certified copy will be -- we agree that the certified
7 copy is to be used for all purposes.
8 Anything else?
9 MR. HERSH: Not that I can think of.
10 VIDEOGRAPHER: Is that it? This concludes
11 Volume I --
12 MS. ANGELL: Wait a minute. Everybody didn't
13 stipulate.
14 MS. LARKINS: I stipulate.
15 MR. HERSH: I stipulate.
16 VIDEOGRAPHER: This concludes --
17 MS. ANGELL: What is happening with the
18 exhibits?
19 THE REPORTER: I have 1 through 5. They will be
20 attached to the copies.
21 MS. ANGELL: So are those exhibits coming back
22 to the next volume of the deposition?
23 MS. LARKINS: Yes.
24 MS. ANGELL: So the court reporter needs --
25 you're going to have the same court reporter and she's
141
1 going to bring those same exhibits back to the next depo
2 or what?
3 THE REPORTER: I can leave a set here in the
4 office, and they will be here. That's not a problem. I
5 can make a set here or I can start an exhibit binder so
6 that we can mark them continuously, but I'll keep a
7 working copy here in the office so that they will be here
8 and they will also be attached to Volume I.
9 MS. LARKINS: Okay. Sounds good.
10 VIDEOGRAPHER: Ready to go off?
11 MS. LARKINS: Yes.
12 VIDEOGRAPHER: This concludes Volume 1 of the
13 deposition of Robin Donlan. Off the record at 5:24.
...BY MS. LARKINS:
...Q. Would you look at Page 80, Line 19. Could you
20 read the question there that starts on Line 19 and goes
21 to Line 21.
22 A. "Did Robin Colls ever share with you
23 any kind of information concerning a police report
24 allegedly, somehow, involving Maura Larkins?"
25 Q. And could you please read the answer starting on
126
1 Page -- Line 22 and continuing on to the next page.
2 A. "Actually that did come up at some point when
3 she was talking, but she herself said, you know, you
4 don't want to hear anything about that, and I'm not going
5 to tell you. I know that there is something, but I have
6 no clue what it is."
7 Q. And the first line, please, on Page 81.
8 A. "She didn't want me to know."
9 Q. Was there ever something about a police report
10 that you didn't want Gretchen Donndelinger to know?
11 A. Not to my recollection, no.
12 Q. Okay. So according to your recollection,
13 Gretchen Donndelinger's testimony about you here is
14 false?
15 A. As far as I recall.
16 Q. Okay. Did your brother ever talk to you during
17 the year 2000 about my having been arrested?
18 MR. GARVIN: Vague and ambiguous.
19 THE WITNESS: No.
20 BY MS. LARKINS:
21 Q. Okay. Would you please read the question on
22 Line 2 of Page 81.
23 A. "So she said there's something in the police
24 report?"
25 Q. And could you read Line 3?
127
1 A. "It was a personal thing."
2 Q. Could you read Lines 4 and 5 which are another
3 question.
4 A. "Involving something that was a non-school
5 matter but that Robin Colls was aware of?
6 Uh-huh.
7 Was that a yes?"
8 Do I continue?
9 Q. Okay. Now that you have read almost half a page
10 of Gretchen Donndelinger's testimony about a conversation
11 she claims to have had with you, are you getting any
12 memories at all of this conversation?
13 A. No, none whatsoever.
14 Q. Okay. Do you have any explanation for why
15 Gretchen Donndelinger would have said that you talked
16 about a police report?
17 MS. ANGELL: Objection. Calls for speculation.
18 You don't guess in a deposition, but if you have
19 information, if she told you something or if you have
20 knowledge, then you express it.
21 MR. HERSH: Did she testify that there was a
22 police record or was that the question about a police
23 record? Since I don't have it.
24 MS. ANGELL: The question at Page 80, Line 19
25 was: "Did Robin Colls ever share with you any kind of
128
1 information concerning a police report allegedly,
2 somehow, involving Maura Larkins?" So it was concerning
3 a police report allegedly, somehow, involving Maura
4 Larkins.
5 MR. HERSH: Okay.
6 MS. LARKINS: Okay.
7 Q. Well, I'm going to try help jog your memory
8 here. So could you read the question that was asked of
9 Gretchen Donndelinger that is recorded here on Line 10 on
10 Page 81.
11 A. "Was this in a face-to-face conversation with
12 Robin Colls?"
13 Q. And what was Gretchen's answer?
14 A. "Yes."
15 Q. Okay. You don't remember any face-to-face
16 conversation with Gretchen Donndelinger about a police
17 report that allegedly somehow involved me?
18 A. No, I don't.
19 Q. Okay. Do you have any experience of Gretchen
20 Donndelinger having hallucinations?
21 A. No. Personally, no.
22 Q. Okay. But you heard -- her testimony here is
23 false; is that your testimony?
24 A. I don't have any recollection of that event.
25 Q. Could this conversation have had happened and
129
1 you might have forgotten it?
2 A. I doubt that.
3 Q. So you're quite sure this conversation never
4 took place?
5 A. I don't recall it.
6 Q. Okay. Could you please turn to the next -- you
7 know, the next page, and then at the top of the next page
8 is condensed Page 82. Oh, actually -- I'm sorry.
9 You know, it won't make any sense unless we
10 finish reading 81. Could you read Line 20 on 81.
11 A. "It occurred in the 1999-2000 school year."
12 Q. Then could you read the question --
13 A. "But you found out about it in which year?"
14 Q. And could you read the answer.
15 A. "There was an incident this is referring, to my
16 belief. They had a problem with a staff member the year
17 before and -- that's what I understood this to mean
18 anyway."
19 MS. LARKINS: Okay. Okay. I'd like to go on
20 break because I need to copy a document.
21 THE WITNESS: She has to leave anyway, don't
22 you?
23 MS. GARVIN: I'm sorry?
24 MS. LARKINS: Do you want to continue or do you
25 want to end this session now? Because what I would do
130
1 next is I would go on break and I would copy this
2 document.
3 MS. GARVIN: Let me see that.
4 Does this involve Michael Carlson?
5 MS. LARKINS: This involves Line 25 of Page 81
6 of the deposition that we are discussing.
7 MS. GARVIN: This is Exhibit 19 to --
8 MS. LARKINS: Yes.
9 MS GARVIN: -- the deposition.
10 MS. LARKINS: Actually what Elizabeth Schulman
11 did was she had exhibits for the deposition and then she
12 kept the same numbers when she prepared this exhibit book
13 for the administrative hearing.
14 MS. GARVIN: Go ahead and finish this up.
15 MS. LARKINS: Okay. I need to go on break to
16 make a copy.
17 VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record at 5:08.
18 (Recess taken.)
19 VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the record at 5:11.
20 MS. LARKINS: Did you want to say something?
21 MS. GARVIN: It's your deposition.
22 MS. LARKINS: I am willing to conclude this
23 session of this deposition now. I believe that
24 Ms. Garvin supports that idea. And Mr. Hersh will not
25 object. So I think it's up to you, Ms. Angell.
131
1 MS. ANGELL: I have no problem with it. I'm
2 thinking about possible dates. Maybe sometime during the
3 week of November 13th -- sorry -- November 15th, based on
4 Ms. Donlan -- I don't know if you have any testing of
5 children going on, but if maybe we could consider that
6 week.
7 MS. GARVIN: I know that on the 17th is the
8 deposition of the sheriff's department is already
9 scheduled.
10 MS. ANGELL: So maybe we should just go off and
11 then talk about possible scheduling dates.
12 VIDEOGRAPHER: Okay?
13 MS. LARKINS: Wait a minute.
14 MS. ANGELL: So yeah.
15 MR. HERSH: So the Carlson deposition is off on
16 the 15th?
17 MS. LARKINS: Yeah
18 MR. HERSH: We are off the record now?
19 VIDEOGRAPHER: No. We are still on.
20 MS. LARKINS: It's on the 17th?
21 MS. ANGELL: Not Carlson. I mean the sheriff.
22 MS. LARKINS: Okay. The sheriff is the 17th and
23 Carlson's is 23rd?
24 MS. GARVIN: Yes.
25 MR. HERSH: At what time?
132
1 MS GARVIN: 1:00 o'clock.
2 MS. LARKINS: Is it 1:00 o'clock? I probably
3 have that written down.
4 MS. GARVIN: Here.
5 MS. LARKINS: 1:00 o'clock, Carlson.
6 MS. GARVIN: Are we going off the record and
7 concluding the depo, going off the record now?
8 MS. LARKINS: Can we agree on the 15th?
9 MS. ANGELL: I need to go check my calendar at
10 the office, but I'd like to aim for that week.
11 MS. LARKINS: Okay. That's fine.
12 Then I guess we can conclude here for this
13 session.
14 Do we need to say all that stuff about what to
15 do with the transcript?
16 MS. ANGELL: Yes.
17 MS. LARKINS: Okay. Someone else want to do it?
18 Do you want me to try?
19 Oh, hey. Darn it. I don't have a deposition
20 with me. Usually I have someone else's deposition and I
21 can read it.
22 MS. GARVIN: You have that one, the Donndelinger
23 one.
24 MS. LARKINS: Let's see what it says. They were
25 a lot more casual on this one.
133
1 MS GARVIN: Are we going to have the witness
2 review it now or wait until it's complete to review all
3 of the transcript at the same time?
4 MS. LARKINS: Why don't we let her review this
5 part.
6 MS. GARVIN: And so we need to know how long it
7 would take Ms. Donlan to review her transcript.
8 MS. ANGELL: Well, it depends on when she gets
9 it, I would assume. So customary we are talking a month
10 to review. I don't know how long it's going -- I don't
11 know if you're going to expedite the transcript or what.
12 I don't know what your plan is.
13 MS. LARKINS: I don't think we need to expedite
14 it, but -- a whole month she needs to review it?
15 MS. ANGELL: That's the usual. People who are
16 working --
17 MS. LARKINS: Okay.
18 MS. ANGELL: It's normal.
19 So since you're apparently not going to do a
20 stipulation, I'll propose the following stipulation:
21 That the court reporter be relieved from her duties under
22 the code as well as the videographer be relieved from his
23 duties under code, and that counsel have agreed on the
24 record to continue this deposition to its second volume
25 at a mutually agreed-upon date, hopefully during
134
1 November, but counsel will confer on that matter.
2 And we also stipulate that the original of this
3 transcript, including a condensed and word index, will be
4 forwarded to Ms. Donlan for her review and signature;
5 that a postage-paid envelope will be -- excuse me. I'm
6 going to take that back. You're going to send it me to
7 be forwarded to Ms. Donlan, and I'll take care of the
8 envelope.
9 And that from the time -- I will forward it to
10 Ms. Donlan for her review and signature and any
11 corrections that are necessary. And from the time
12 Ms. Donlan receives the transcript, she'll have 30 days
13 to make her changes and sign it. If the changes are not
14 made and the signature not done within that 30 days, it
15 will be deemed signed as is.
16 MS. LARKINS: Can I interrupt a moment?
17 I'm trying to figure out why you wanted me to
18 sign my deposition in one week and yet hers would be a
19 month.
20 MS. ANGELL: Because we're going to continue
21 your deposition. Your deposition is not done, but that
22 doesn't really have anything to do with hers. We were
23 talking -- I can't remember if we were talking about -- I
24 explained it on the record at the time. I know that
25 there was a discussion of it and we explained on it the
135
1 record at the time. So if you want to go back and look
2 at your transcript -- if you want to propose the
3 stipulation, I don't care. Go ahead. You just weren't
4 doing it.
5 MS. LARKINS: You're right. I'm a crummy
6 lawyer. I have stipulated to that on other occasions.
7 MS. ANGELL: So my proposed stipulation is then
8 stricken. Go ahead.
9 MS. LARKINS: Okay. I did not agree that it be
10 stricken.
11 I want to talk about how long it takes her to
12 sign it, and I would like you to explain --
13 MS. GARVIN: I'll agree to whatever stipulation
14 you eventually are able to work out.
15 MR. HERSH: I stipulate that Ms. Garvin pay my
16 salary for the day.
17 MS. LARKINS: Two points.
18 (Ms. Garvin not present.)
19 MS. LARKINS: I cannot for the life of me figure
20 out why there is such a huge difference between my
21 deposition and Ms. Donlan's deposition.
22 MS. ANGELL: Well, for one thing, you're not
23 employed, to my knowledge, and she has a full-time job.
24 For the second thing, you're a party to this litigation;
25 you're bringing the litigation, and we knew that your
136
1 deposition was going to continue in multiple parts, and I
2 asked you if that was enough time for you and you said
3 that it was.
4 MS. LARKINS: I agree. I think one month is too
5 long for Ms. Donlan.
6 MS. ANGELL: Well, you can think that.
7 How long do you need? This is going to be this
8 thick (indicating).
9 THE WITNESS: Yeah. And I don't -- I want to be
10 thorough before I sign it.
11 MS. ANGELL: It also depends on when she gets
12 it. Do you have any travel that is going to take you out
13 of town? Normally it takes several weeks for these
14 things to be produced.
15 THE WITNESS: No. I don't have any plans
16 currently.
17 MS. ANGELL: All right. So you're not planning
18 to leave town between now and December 31?
19 THE WITNESS: No.
20 MS. ANGELL: Okay. So how long do you think
21 that you'll need to -- the transcript looks like a
22 screenplay or like a movie script, you know, question,
23 answer, just like this
24 THE WITNESS: Comb-bound, correct?
25 MS. ANGELL: Usually. So it's basically going
137
1 to look like this, so --
2 THE WITNESS: But thicker.
3 MS. ANGELL: Each page is on its own.
4 THE WITNESS: Well, I'll only be able to read at
5 night, along with everything else I do in the evenings.
6 MS. ANGELL: Like grade papers --
7 THE WITNESS: Grade papers, make lesson plans,
8 take care of my husband, you know.
9 MS. LARKINS: It would be much easier if all you
10 had to do was fight off four huge law firms.
11 THE WITNESS: I mean I don't want to feel like
12 I'm rushed in going through it.
13 MS. ANGELL: How long do you think you need?
14 It's probably going to be several hundred pages, double
15 spaced.
16 THE WITNESS: At least three to four weeks, I
17 would think.
18 MS. LARKINS: How about three weeks?
19 MS. ANGELL: All right. So three weeks from the
20 time that she receives it.
21 Now, do you want to make the stipulation or do
22 you want me to put it on? I don't approve when you
23 strike things; you don't approve when I strike my own
24 comments.
25 MS. LARKINS: Okay. So it really is stricken?
138
1 MS. ANGELL: When you strike you own questions,
2 I don't go back and -- you know, I have control over what
3 I say and you have control over what you say.
4 MS. LARKINS: Okay. I'm sorry. I didn't --
5 MS. ANGELL: Do you want me to put it on or do
6 you prefer to do it yourself? I'm trying to help you out
7 here because you don't seem to know what you're doing.
8 MS. LARKINS: That's right. I don't know what
9 I'm doing, but I will tell what you I'll do. I'll try.
10 Okay.
11 Now, we still have, I believe -- I don't think
12 it was stricken when Ms. Garvin asked whether or not we
13 would have this session, this volume, signed, so that's
14 still in.
15 Ms. Donlan is going to read and sign this volume
16 of it without regard to whenever we continue the
17 deposition. And the deposition is going to be delivered
18 to Kelly Angell when the court reporter has it ready.
19 MS. ANGELL: The original of the deposition.
20 MS. LARKINS: Thank you.
21 MS. ANGELL: With the documents that I
22 previously listed.
23 MS. LARKINS: Yes. I'm quite sure our court
24 reporter was planning on doing that.
25 Then you will provide it to Ms. Donlan, and from
139
1 the time that you provide it, Ms. Donlan will have three
2 weeks to sign it. And if she doesn't sign it, a
3 certified copy will be acceptable as -- the same as an
4 original. And, in fact, a certified copy will be
5 acceptable in lieu of an original whether she signs it or
6 not. But if she doesn't sign it within three weeks, then
7 it will be considered signed and accepted in the state
8 that it was in when prepared by the court reporter.
9 Let's see. Is there anything else? I don't
10 think they did all this stuff here. Oh, yeah, they did.
11 MS. ANGELL: Could I ask the court reporter --
12 well, I might as well ask you while we are all here. I
13 don't know if it's possible to go back and mark before
14 you print everything out the standing objections. If
15 that is possible to mark it in the transcript, if you
16 would, that would be great.
17 THE REPORTER: I will mark it -- I'll put
18 "record marked at the request of Ms. Angell," and I will
19 mark where you have stated your standing objections.
20 MS. ANGELL: Yeah. There was a stipulation as
21 to all -- as to relevance objections being made for
22 everything. That is particularly what I'm interested in.
23 MS. LARKINS: Okay. I can't think of anything
24 else to stipulate. If you want anything else
25 stipulated --
140
1 MS. ANGELL: A facsimile copy of signature will
2 be deemed sufficient evidence of Ms. Donlan's signature
3 on the deposition for all purposes. Ms. Donlan's counsel
4 will retain the original copy and produce it upon timely
5 request. However, if the original is not available, a
6 certified copy will be -- we agree that the certified
7 copy is to be used for all purposes.
8 Anything else?
9 MR. HERSH: Not that I can think of.
10 VIDEOGRAPHER: Is that it? This concludes
11 Volume I --
12 MS. ANGELL: Wait a minute. Everybody didn't
13 stipulate.
14 MS. LARKINS: I stipulate.
15 MR. HERSH: I stipulate.
16 VIDEOGRAPHER: This concludes --
17 MS. ANGELL: What is happening with the
18 exhibits?
19 THE REPORTER: I have 1 through 5. They will be
20 attached to the copies.
21 MS. ANGELL: So are those exhibits coming back
22 to the next volume of the deposition?
23 MS. LARKINS: Yes.
24 MS. ANGELL: So the court reporter needs --
25 you're going to have the same court reporter and she's
141
1 going to bring those same exhibits back to the next depo
2 or what?
3 THE REPORTER: I can leave a set here in the
4 office, and they will be here. That's not a problem. I
5 can make a set here or I can start an exhibit binder so
6 that we can mark them continuously, but I'll keep a
7 working copy here in the office so that they will be here
8 and they will also be attached to Volume I.
9 MS. LARKINS: Okay. Sounds good.
10 VIDEOGRAPHER: Ready to go off?
11 MS. LARKINS: Yes.
12 VIDEOGRAPHER: This concludes Volume 1 of the
13 deposition of Robin Donlan. Off the record at 5:24.
The entire content of the
testimony on this page
was removed by a
hacker at some unknown
time, and replaced on
April 12, 2010.
testimony on this page
was removed by a
hacker at some unknown
time, and replaced on
April 12, 2010.
| Education Report |
| San Diego |
Depostion of Principal of
Castle Park Elementary
September 10, 2002
Page 80 line 19
Q. Did Robin Colls
[AKA Robin Donlan] ever
share with you any kind of
information concerning a
police report allegedly,
somehow, involving Maura
Larkins?
A. Actually, that did
come up at some point
when she [Robin
Colls/Donlan]was
talking, but she, herself,
said, you know, you don’t
want to hear anything
about
that. And I’m not going to
tell you. I know that
there is something, but I
have no clue what it is.
She didn’t want me to
know.
[Robin didn't want
Gretchen to know; Robin
seems to be
demonstrating awareness
of guilt.]
Q. So she said there’s
something in the police
report?
A. It was a personal thing.
Q. Involving something
that was a non-school
matter but that Robin
Colls was
aware of?
A. Uh-huh.
Q. Was that a yes?
A. Yes, I do recall
hearing something like
that. I have no details
whatsoever.
Q. Was this in a face-to-
face conversation with
Robin Colls?
A. Yes.
Q. And what year was
that?
A. That was the year, I
think she told me about
that this year, the year—
Q. 2002?
A. Two—1999, 2000
school year. It was the
year before.
Q. That this occurred?
A. It occurred in the
1999, 2000 school year.
Q. But you found out
about it in which year.
A. There was an incident
that this is referring to in
my belief. They had a
problem with a staff
member the year before
and—that’s what I
understood this to
mean anyway.
Q. Exhibit 19? [Exhibit
19]
Page 82 lines 1-25:
A. Yes. It happened in
1999, September.
[actually, 2000,
September]
It was like the first week
back from
vacation. That’s when
that happened, and, I
believe, that’s when
Robin told me
that there was an
incident, there was a
personal, a side incident,
but she said
you don’t want to know
about it [because it would
be a crime to obtain this
information?]. And I said
no, it’s personal, doesn’t
have anything to do with
school, I don’t want to
know.
Q. And she told you it
involved some sort of
police report or law
enforcement
report?
A. I think so, yes.
Q. Did you ask her
how she knew that?
A. Uh-uh.
Q. No?
A. That was it. That’s
all she said. She said I
have this thing going on
with her on the side.
Outside of school. You
don’t want to know about
it.
Q. Was it an
indication that she had it
going on, that it was
something personal?
A. It was a personal
issue outside of school
going on with Maura and
her
somehow, and I don’t
know if it was her or her
family or—but that was
it. That’s all she said.
Q. Did Ms. Colls,
rather, leave you with the
impression that it was
going
on—that somehow, Ms.
Colls was actually
involved in this personal
incident?
A. That she or her
family, you know, she
knows about it or it was—
something else going on
outside of school,
Page 83, lines 1-8:
[A. contd.] Something to
do with Robin and or her
family and Maura. I don’t
know even why I
remember that.
Somehow somebody told
me, and I think it was
Robin.
Q. It had something
to do with either Robin or
a family member of Robin’
s?
A. Yeah. I think if it was
actually Robin I probably
would have wanted to
know, just natural
curiosity. I don’t think it
was against her. I think
it was
a family member.
Castle Park Elementary
September 10, 2002
Page 80 line 19
Q. Did Robin Colls
[AKA Robin Donlan] ever
share with you any kind of
information concerning a
police report allegedly,
somehow, involving Maura
Larkins?
A. Actually, that did
come up at some point
when she [Robin
Colls/Donlan]was
talking, but she, herself,
said, you know, you don’t
want to hear anything
about
that. And I’m not going to
tell you. I know that
there is something, but I
have no clue what it is.
She didn’t want me to
know.
[Robin didn't want
Gretchen to know; Robin
seems to be
demonstrating awareness
of guilt.]
Q. So she said there’s
something in the police
report?
A. It was a personal thing.
Q. Involving something
that was a non-school
matter but that Robin
Colls was
aware of?
A. Uh-huh.
Q. Was that a yes?
A. Yes, I do recall
hearing something like
that. I have no details
whatsoever.
Q. Was this in a face-to-
face conversation with
Robin Colls?
A. Yes.
Q. And what year was
that?
A. That was the year, I
think she told me about
that this year, the year—
Q. 2002?
A. Two—1999, 2000
school year. It was the
year before.
Q. That this occurred?
A. It occurred in the
1999, 2000 school year.
Q. But you found out
about it in which year.
A. There was an incident
that this is referring to in
my belief. They had a
problem with a staff
member the year before
and—that’s what I
understood this to
mean anyway.
Q. Exhibit 19? [Exhibit
19]
Page 82 lines 1-25:
A. Yes. It happened in
1999, September.
[actually, 2000,
September]
It was like the first week
back from
vacation. That’s when
that happened, and, I
believe, that’s when
Robin told me
that there was an
incident, there was a
personal, a side incident,
but she said
you don’t want to know
about it [because it would
be a crime to obtain this
information?]. And I said
no, it’s personal, doesn’t
have anything to do with
school, I don’t want to
know.
Q. And she told you it
involved some sort of
police report or law
enforcement
report?
A. I think so, yes.
Q. Did you ask her
how she knew that?
A. Uh-uh.
Q. No?
A. That was it. That’s
all she said. She said I
have this thing going on
with her on the side.
Outside of school. You
don’t want to know about
it.
Q. Was it an
indication that she had it
going on, that it was
something personal?
A. It was a personal
issue outside of school
going on with Maura and
her
somehow, and I don’t
know if it was her or her
family or—but that was
it. That’s all she said.
Q. Did Ms. Colls,
rather, leave you with the
impression that it was
going
on—that somehow, Ms.
Colls was actually
involved in this personal
incident?
A. That she or her
family, you know, she
knows about it or it was—
something else going on
outside of school,
Page 83, lines 1-8:
[A. contd.] Something to
do with Robin and or her
family and Maura. I don’t
know even why I
remember that.
Somehow somebody told
me, and I think it was
Robin.
Q. It had something
to do with either Robin or
a family member of Robin’
s?
A. Yeah. I think if it was
actually Robin I probably
would have wanted to
know, just natural
curiosity. I don’t think it
was against her. I think
it was
a family member.
Gretchen Donndelinger
Deposition
September 2002
This deposition of the
principal of Castle Park
Elementary was taken for
the Office of
Administrative Hearings
(OAH) hearing, but never
used by Maura Larkins'
attorney Elizabeth
Schulman.
Deposition
September 2002
This deposition of the
principal of Castle Park
Elementary was taken for
the Office of
Administrative Hearings
(OAH) hearing, but never
used by Maura Larkins'
attorney Elizabeth
Schulman.